Karl Koch Interview Part 2…

Rachel: [00:00:47] Hello and welcome to We Are Weezer, Episode 37! My name is Rachel and I'm your host. Before we get going. We are Weezer is a podcast about Weezer. My co-host Juliette and I pick a Weezer song research the crap out of it and find a bunch of interesting fun facts that we can tell you all about. We rate the song with our special rating system and sometimes we have a fun segment, guest host, Weezer news, all kinds of stuff. This is actually part two of a very special three-part series our interview with Karl Koch, who is the unofficial fifth member of Weezer. Karl spent a long time with me on this interview and I really appreciate it and feel honored to have him on as our guest. Luckily, we had so many questions and answers that we had to split it up into three shows. So, without further ado here is part two of our Karl interview series. I hope you guys like it.

Karl Koch: [00:01:56] Well it's nice, nice to see you again.

Rachel: [00:01:59] You too. Hopefully all the traveling went well and.

Karl Koch: [00:02:02] Ugh, no it didn't. But that's OK.

Rachel: [00:02:06] I can't believe you flew to Mexico for one.

Karl Koch: [00:02:09] I know.

Rachel: [00:02:09] One evening.

Karl Koch: [00:02:10] Yeah it was. It was. It would have been too much effort for one show except that we had to shoot a bunch of other stuff before the show.

Rachel: [00:02:21] Ahh, okay.

Karl Koch: [00:02:21] And I guess I can't really talk about what we shot but it was important enough that if I could make it, it, it mattered. It would be a big pain in the butt if we hadn't done it then because we'd be. We only have one more opportunity and that's tomorrow in Philadelphia. And that's cause that's the last really show I'm going to be at this year. So, we got it. So that made all the horrific travel worth it. [both laugh]

Rachel: [00:02:46] Did it have to be in Mexico? Or did it. Did it have to be. Because, when everyone was together?

Karl Koch: [00:02:51] It was only it was just where everyone's together. That was the whole point.

Rachel: [00:02:54] Wow. Crazy.

Karl Koch: [00:02:55] I mean the show itself was. It was really good. So, you know. It was a good, it was a good show to be at. But if it had just been that, would've been like wow that was a lot of delays and problems just for getting to a show. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:03:07] Did the, did the Mexico fans... are there a lot of them?

Karl Koch: [00:03:12] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:03:12] Are they super popular there.

Karl Koch: [00:03:13] Yeah. They're not super popular but they have a very hardcore fan base. And so, we've only played Mexico like three times total now so they're very deprived and they're very you know hyper into it. You know I mean I don't know how big this festival really was. It felt like there's about ten thousand people there which is not a big festival, by festival standards. But they were all going crazy. So, I guess it you know it felt big you know.

Rachel: [00:03:37] Because the love was there.

Karl Koch: [00:03:38] Yeah. And they have a... I, me and Rivers are actually talking about this. They have a thing. and it's not just Mexico but certain countries that are not the United States. They really love songs that and they love singing along and they're not c--like, Cooler than thou. and they're not. It's sort of like, different than almost like the kind of American almost like you know hyper clean pop hip hop crowd where it's like, yeah, people might be into it but they're not going to like get corny and you know show you that they're into it and.

Rachel: [00:04:11] Right.

Karl Koch: [00:04:11] In Mexico it's like you can have the biggest corniest Top 40 song. And like everybody will be so happy and singing along to it. So, a band like Weezer isn't like Top 40 but like they're so into bands in that way that like there's no shame there's no shyness it's just like. They just let it all hang out. And it's really cool to see.

Rachel: [00:04:29] They're having fun.

Karl Koch: [00:04:30] Yeah, I mean it's like you know American Weezer shows. You also see that. But sometimes you see a show where people were kind of just like hanging back like you know nodding their head a little bit and they're not that. But not in Mexico. It's crazy there. So, it's cool to see.

Rachel: [00:04:43] Like they freak out. They're, they're all about it.

Karl Koch: [00:04:44] they freak out and it's, and it's like this like camaraderie that you just. It's very... It's different. It's like it really feels like they have absolutely no problem with like just being brotherly. You know what I mean? It's a different vibe.

Rachel: [00:05:01] That's interesting. Like, something about the culture.

Karl Koch: [00:05:04] Yeah and there's other countries that have that too. But Mexico definitely has it BIG TIME.

Rachel: [00:05:08] Like, like doing crowd surfing and like, hugging each other and singing.

Karl Koch: [00:05:12] Not even so. Not even so much it's just like, this sort of like weird-like this joy and this, like, singalong thing that's like very intense you know.

Rachel: [00:05:22] I'd like to see that. I wonder. Maybe like that's something to put. I don't know. On video one day. Like all the different countries and how they are because I've heard that like in Japan, they're very quiet or to be respectful.

Karl Koch: [00:05:34] Well they're quiet. They're very quiet between songs because they want to. They're very focused on what the singer is saying. Like, they, they'll clap and then stop on a dime in unison [Rachel laughs] because what if he said something, I want to hear what he says. So, it's kind of kind of funny like that.

Rachel: [00:05:49] But they still sing during the music?

Karl Koch: [00:05:51] Oh yeah. They go crazy. It's getting more Americanized. Like I remember in the 90s. It was weird how quiet they were. And. You know in between songs and then over time like they start realizing well it's kind of cool to like shout something or do something in between songs so now more people are doing that

Rachel: [00:06:07] Or just you know.

Karl Koch: [00:06:08] Like they're kind of like.

Rachel: [00:06:08] Yeah, say "I love you; I love you Rivers!".

Karl Koch: [00:06:10] They're sort of, they're kind of like adapting more and more to like. I guess you could say like you know American or U.K. rock norms over time. But 20 years ago, it was very different.

Rachel: [00:06:18] Or just like, their, their culture might just be relaxing.

Karl Koch: [00:06:23] It is. It's definitely, it definitely is. It. It will never be that relaxed, but it's more relaxed than it used to be.

Rachel: [00:06:29] I think, you know, maybe there were different kinds of people in our country but, like, in the United States it was kind of like that in the 50s. Like you had to be a certain reserved way. And if you weren't you were like, oh my God, you know?

Karl Koch: [00:06:42] That's true. That's definitely true. And obviously like you know all the famous rock and roll stuff that started back then really freaked people out because of how it made people act like kids are freaking out. This is not good. You know? [Both laugh]

Rachel: [00:06:55] Yeah, you can't move your hips that way, Elvis, you're crazy!

Karl Koch: [00:07:00] Right. And little did they know 6-10 years later. It'd be like you can't take all your clothes off on stage like that, [both laugh] Jim Morrison, what are you doing?

Rachel: [00:07:09] Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah well, he, they freaked out at him too.

Karl Koch: [00:07:15] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:07:16] Alright. Well, I don't, I don't want to like, keep you a thousand years because I probably could, but.

Karl Koch: [00:07:20] Right.

Intermission: [00:07:20] [Music Intermission]

Rachel: [00:07:45] So speaking of silly crazy things... Does Rick Rubin wear shoes? [both laugh] Cause I heard, I don't know; Rick, our, my... the old co-host he was like adamant that Rick Rubin does not wear shoes.

Karl Koch: [00:08:00] Well I got to say I've, I've seen him wear shoes less than I've seen him not wear shoes. I think he is like one of those dudes that will have sandals on but, he'll take them off as soon as he can at any given situation and definitely in the studio. He will not wear shoes in a studio. He'll basically be sitting cross-legged on the couch with no shoes on.

Rachel: [00:08:19] With like super dirty feet?

Karl Koch: [00:08:21] I don't, I didn't really observe, to be honest. I don't, never really checked them out but I bet they were kind of a little dirty. Yeah. [both laugh]

Rachel: [00:08:29] OK. Well so that's good to know. So, sometimes, but mostly not.

Karl Koch: [00:08:39] Right. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:08:39] We've always been curious whose idea "The Good Life" video was, because it's so random.

Karl Koch: [00:08:44] Oh.

Rachel: [00:08:45] What, what's that all about?

Karl Koch: [00:08:47] Well that actually was a treatment that Jonathan and Valerie, the, the directors came up with. They submitted that. Why it was chosen-I'm not exactly sure. I think there was a desire to work with them because they had just done something really important that I can't remember what it was. It might have been "Tonight, Tonight" by Smashing Pumpkins or something like that. I think that was them.

Rachel: [00:09:07] Mm.

Karl Koch: [00:09:07] So it was kinda like, these guys are super talented. We need to use them. But you know they were sort of fighting against the vibe in Weezer at the time, which was Rivers trying to be very serious. You know, he was very adamant about the vibe he wanted Pinkerton to have. And meanwhile you had the rest of the guys who were like, "But we're Weezer, like this... We can't help but just be who we are." So, their whole thing was like Jonathan and Valerie brought in this, "OK. There's gonna be the pizza, pizza delivery girl and she's gonna be having a bad day and blah blah blah. Meanwhile you guys are gonna be playing and eventually she's gonna deliver pizza to you guys and that's what's going to cross over and that'll be that." And you know it wasn't a terrifically ambitious idea but their whole... what they were trying to do is make it visually really interesting with all these multiple camera angles. And that was kind of like... I remember that being like the most important thing at the time was like they were really concerned about, "Ok we have these four cameras and they're all gonna be split up on the screen and it was gonna be this special look." And it is in the video, but I don't remember it being particularly special in the end. It was just like, "Well that's kind of cool, but no, no big deal." And they shot all the, the thing with the pizza girl separately. Like we never, we only saw her that brief moment she came to the studio, into the studio. And you know did her scene where she delivered the pizza or whatever.

Rachel: [00:10:21] And she went off to be like a-

Karl Koch: [00:10:22] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:10:22] An, an actual actress.

Karl Koch: [00:10:24] She was yes, she was in that cool show, but I can remember the name of it? Mr. Show, maybe? I think she was in Mr. Show at the time. And then.

Rachel: [00:10:30] I think she's in 24.

Karl Koch: [00:10:31] Yeah, then she went on. Then she went on. There's a lot of act-

Rachel: [00:10:34] Like that's a big deal.

Karl Koch: [00:10:34] There's a lot of actresses that went on to other things from Weezer videos. I think we have that effect on people. [both laugh] I don't know. So yeah.

Rachel: [00:10:42] Yeah, we, I just was curious because it seems so like... like, I didn't get it. Like why, like why the pizza?

Karl Koch: [00:10:49] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:10:50] Why, I, you know. All of, everything about it.

Karl Koch: [00:10:51] It was, it was. I think it was pretty quickly viewed as like well this didn't quite work. But they're putting it out anyway because it's the single. You know I don't think anybody.

Rachel: [00:11:01] And we did it.

Karl Koch: [00:11:02] I don't think anybody was super excited about it. And if, and you, the thing, the thing that's fascinating about it is to watch the difference between how Rivers is, is behaving and how everybody else is behaving in the video. Because Rivers is often, has his eyes closed. He's never making a joke. He wanted to be very serious. He was really feeling it. He didn't, you know. And then meanwhile Pat and Matt are running around like airplanes, and you know. And Brian's kind of mugging for the camera because there was this real split between what we should do as a band. Like what our image is like how can we do happy days? How can we do, you know these things. And then suddenly be all serious. And I think Rivers is thinking like well, "Say It Ain't So" was serious and that's, that's what I want to kind of go with. And I think it just was a conflict of like different visions overlaid over this video treatment that was just kind of like odd. And I'm not really sure why it was chosen. It just, I think everybody just wanted to work with the directors because they were so hot then. And everybody thought that they were really cool, you know? Like they did this amazing video. We could, they could, ours is going to be amazing too. That kind of thing.

Rachel: [00:12:07] Yeah, no that makes sense now. I guess I didn't really look into the... I just assumed it was like every... Like all, all video ideas are Weezer's ideas directly and...

Karl Koch: [00:12:17] Oh, directors will. [Rachel: Probably not] I mean, this is not really true anymore, but the directors would, would submit treatment after treatment after treatment. And you know you used to go through reams of these things like, "No, no, no, no. Well maybe. No, no, no." I don't think of any. I think... The few concepts that the band to themselves has come up with were... I don't know they've ever actually pursued any of those. And the one video, the few videos that I shot were not scripted as you know like "Photograph" was not really scripted I just shot stuff and put it together. And that's true for other little, little kind of DIY videos I've done for songs over the years. It's like it's never been like, "I'm going to direct this, you know. Get behind the camera, you, I need a DP and I need this." like it was just like I'm shooting stuff and I'll put it together later. The only time I ever had a script, they didn't ever end up using it.

Karl Koch: [00:13:10] I was gonna do a "Dope Nose" video. And, this was, at the time it was going to, it was totally gonna happen because there was no plan to spend any money and do a video for us. Alright let's just do it a cheap DIY video for this one just for fun, you know. Like we're not gonna really push the song. And as you know it ended up being another what's-his-name video. And it was all like the Japanese biker gang guys and stuff at night.

Rachel: [00:13:33] Riding around in circles.

Karl Koch: [00:13:34] Yeah like all that, all those kinds of crazy costumes and stuff and that was the same guy that directed "Keep Fishin'" and I can't remember his name off... Marcos Siega? Marco, I think it's Marco Siega.

Rachel: [00:13:43] Mhmm.

Karl Koch: [00:13:43] But before that. Like, six months before that, it was like, "Alright, Karl. You know, you can do a video. Let's do a video. You know, this is gonna be fun." I was like, "Cool." And I had this idea, cause at the time Rivers was living up in the hills in Hollywood and he had this garage rehearsal studio that you can see in very early webisodes. Like, this is where they, I shot a bunch of the early stuff back when they were rehearsing for Green Album and stuff like that.

[00:14:05] And I thought alright. All we have to do is make... What I'm going to do here. Is I'm gonna set up a table and they're gonna be playing Dungeons & Dragons at this table and Rivers is going to be the Dungeon Master and the other guys are gonna be the players. So, Rivers is gonna be behind the screen kind of like scheming and like screwing everybody up and the other guys on the other side like trying to get you know through this dungeon. That he's, that he's that he's you know he's hosting. But then I'm going to cut to scenes of their imagination where three guys are going through a tunnel and like this, you know, we'll use like. We'll use like smoke machine and lighting and I'll have like... I had a friend that knew how to make like fake rock walls with like paper and stuff. So, he's gonna make a set basically of them going through a cave and basically, it's gonna be like this... We had this cheap prop of like a dragon coming to blast them you know. [Rachel laughs] And so then that would... It would cut back to the table where everybody's like, you know. Like, like dejected because they just got destroyed and like Rivers is kind of like smirking behind the screen like, "Ha-ha, I got you." And then I think it was gonna be Pat or somebody who was gonna get really mad and flip the whole table over and ruin everything. [both laugh] So and.

Rachel: [00:15:06] "Ahh forget it!".

Karl Koch: [00:15:07] And I, and I. I. I had all this... all the props. I had bought all these like vintage Dungeons & Dragons stuff from this from this and this dealer and I had like. I had a huge sword I'd gotten from like a prop shop in Hollywood. I had a wizard's robe you know that I was gonna put on... I can't remember who was gonna wear that maybe Matt-Mikey or something. I had this whole... it got that far. And then we never did it. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:15:30] Aww. You should like, just redo it. Like, take a Black Album song and just do it.

Karl Koch: [00:15:41] Yeah, it'd be fun. I mean it's... the idea's, it's not going anywhere. It's just not really going anywhere either. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:15:47] Well I mean there hasn't been like a lot of music videos there's been some music videos but not as many as there used to be.

Karl Koch: [00:15:57] Well a lot of times they're done now. Like our, our management company who's also like the label, Crush. They have a little team. So, you see like a lot of these videos they've been putting out for White Album and Pacific Daydream. Like they're not like, big push videos, but they, you need a video. You have to have something on YouTube so for people to find it. And they're pretty clever they do some pretty cool stuff. I really like. I really like... We had a lot of fun and I helped them shoot this stuff for the, the Guns and Roses looking one. I don't remember which song it was off the top of my head. Was it "Feel Like Summer"? I can't even remember now.

Rachel: [00:16:29] It was "Feel Like Summer", yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:16:30] Yeah, I mean.

Rachel: [00:16:31] I was there!

Karl Koch: [00:16:31] Yeah, yeah, I mean it... It was like a, like that was a clever idea you know? And it really looked right like they really captured it like that's what they look like. So.

Rachel: [00:16:42] I watched... We, I, I think a lot of people did watch him side by side. Brian's wearing jean shorts. It was, it was a good one for sure.

Karl Koch: [00:16:55] Anyway.

Rachel: [00:16:55] We, we just discussed "Love Is The Answer". We were trying to figure out if anybody won the concert on Weezer radio or whatever. Do you remember the contest? There was like a contest that you could collaborate with Rivers. Like he put, like he called them tubes of the song up and like people were supposed to add to them or change them and collaborate with Rivers.

Karl Koch: [00:17:23] You mean that "Love Is The Answer" song or.

Rachel: [00:17:26] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:17:26] Really? See the only one I can remember of course is when he had his whole project during the Red Album to write a song. And that ended up being that, that, whatever. Song of, the radio song, that he ended up putting on the Death to False Metal because that was totally collaborative. That was done through YouTube. Ended up having like twenty-five co writers on it because it was all these fans that contributed parts and pieces to it. Was it "Turn Up the Radio"? "Turnin' Up the Radio"? That was the song.

Rachel: [00:17:49] No. Well yeah, I mean but that, yeah.

[00:17:52] But that's not what this is.

[00:17:52] That's cool.

[00:17:53] That's not. That's not what this is. Well I don't think. I don't know if anybody won that because I don't know what happened. [Rachel laughs]

Karl Koch: [00:18:00] I think what.

Rachel: [00:18:01] It could be not. Maybe no one... Nobody won.

Karl Koch: [00:18:03] Yeah. I. I remember a contest where everybody was submitting remixes of the album cover with the, you know, the dog on it. I remember that, but I don't remember this.

Rachel: [00:18:13] I guess Pat was going to pick the winner too. Like it was...

Karl Koch: [00:18:16] Maybe he still will... No, I don't know. [both laugh] I don't know. I think that's been somehow slipped under the carpet. I don't know if they ever actually did that. I don't know if they ever finished that one.

Rachel: [00:18:27] Well we need to figure it out immediately, Karl.

Karl Koch: [00:18:29] Okay. We're, we'll get, we'll get the squad on that one right now. Alright, go, go. Red team go.

Rachel: [00:18:37] Well. Okay so now we'll go. I have like a serious question.

Karl Koch: [00:18:40] Yes.

Rachel: [00:18:41] Or kind of I guess it would be heavy. So, it's not really current anymore but it's a big deal. I think in the world. Did, did you or Weezer have any ties to Chris Cornell or Chester Bennington? And what are... you know, what's the general. I know obviously besides sadness, you know, did they have any like feeling on it?

[00:19:04] Well I don't know if I can speak knowledgeably about what the. What the band feels about Chester, because I don't know if anybody was close to him at all. It's possible Rivers had met him, once or twice. But I don't think they were in close touch. Chris Cornell is interesting. With Pat's band Special Goodness. We did a couple of weeks opening for Audio Slave. This is back in.

[00:19:28] Oh wow.

Karl Koch: [00:19:28] This is back in 2003. It was at [Rachel: Wow.] a time that Weezer was off. And I think this came-.

Rachel: [00:19:34] I did not know that.

Karl Koch: [00:19:35] Yeah, this came about because three members of Audioslave except for Chris were managed the X rage guys were managed by this guy Dan Field, who was jockeying to become Weezer's manager at the time. And somehow it was kind of like a favor, like, "OK maybe I can get you guys on this tour." And that was like you know getting in good with Pat, kind of. And of course, it was a huge opportunity for Pat because he had no budget, no plan. He was just like putting out these little records and hoping people would figure it out that they were cool. And so, it was like, "Yeah, let's go on tour with Audioslave! This would be awesome." And these are hockey arena.

Rachel: [00:20:10] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:20:11] These are hockey arenas. These are big shows. So, we had about two weeks or so opening for Audioslave. And it was, it, it was kind of funny because, you know. It was like, Special Goodness, they were good, but it was like there was no stage presence. It was just like three guys playing these songs. Nobody had ever heard of them. You know about 10 people would be like "Cool." at the end of each song and that was it. [laughs] But then it was like, OK, we went away and then like, "Here comes Audioslave, holy shit!" You know?

Rachel: [00:20:39] Like, "Yeah, we, we're here because we want to be in the front for Audioslave."

Karl Koch: [00:20:42] Exactly. Exactly. But Chris Cornell. It's not like he hung out a lot, but he was a very, very, sweet guy. I mean like, and sweet beyond, like what was necessary. Like he, he didn't have to even pay attention to us, at all. And he was really, really, nice. I think he somehow knew Pat's drummer at the time, Adam Willard, who's been in a lot of bands. So, there was kind of like a little bit of connection there, too. But I just remember him being like seven feet tall and thin as a rail and really, really, really nice. Like, just like strangely nice. Like you're just, why are you so nice to us. Like we, you know, you don't, you don't even have to say hi. But he was just having a good time. He just was having fun. And I remember the weirdest thing was probably the first or second day I was onstage. Like we're setting up the Special Goodness gear, which was like 3, 2 amps and a drum set, there was nothing to do. And I was probably plugging in a guitar or something and I was bent over, and I didn't know it, but Chris Cornell like walked across the stage at this point. And I'm like "Where does this go, does it go in this one or this one?" and all of a sudden, I feel this [slap sound] on my ass. And I'm like [Rachel laughs] I turn around and Chris Cornell's walking away laughing. I'm like, [Rachel laughs] I'm like, "Did this just happen?"

Rachel: [00:21:58] Chris Cornell just slapped my ass.

Karl Koch: [00:22:00] I know, I was like, "Did this just happen?"

Karl Koch: [00:22:01] And that was the beginning of the tour. And from that point I was just like whenever anybody saw him it was just like, "Hey what's up." He was just being super nice. That was strange, but it was funny. So, I think and that was the whole purpose of it was to be funny.

Rachel: [00:22:12] Like break the ice, like.

Karl Koch: [00:22:14] Totally, totally.

Rachel: [00:22:15] I'm, like, you don't have to be...

Karl Koch: [00:22:16] Totally. I was just like "What the fu... What just happened?"

Karl Koch: [00:22:20] But yeah, I mean I think everybody was super bummed out that he passed. It was just awful. I mean there's no... It's just one of those, like, what a huge gigantic waste and, absolutely. I know that in the news it was like, oh, you know he, you know it was suicide and this and that. It's like I don't know about that. It just it might have been a big accident. You know he was probably doing something he shouldn't have been doing but. I can't imagine he was actually depressed about his life. He seemed to have so much going for him. You know, maybe people are saying oh well there's certain kinds of drug reactions you can have to some of those drugs where you can actually get super depressed even though you're, you're not normally. And it can-

Rachel: [00:23:00] Like they work the opposite way or something.

Karl Koch: [00:23:01] Right, like super like you know. So, it could be in like the fits of some sort of really bad trip or whatever that that happened. But it was just a shock and you know everybody was freaked out.

Rachel: [00:23:11] Yeah. Obviously, you were a big fan of, of the music.

Karl Koch: [00:23:16] Oh of course.

Rachel: [00:23:18] I would say.

Karl Koch: [00:23:18] Yeah, of course.

Rachel: [00:23:19] I saw them. He did KROQ acoustic Christmas and he was the only band, Audioslave was the only band to do acoustic-.

Karl Koch: [00:23:29] That's cool.

Rachel: [00:23:29] Music that night.

Karl Koch: [00:23:31] That's cool.

Rachel: [00:23:32] And I just was totally like awestruck and... I got emotional like just watching them and I, I just... I was so thankful that I got to see that before that happened.

Karl Koch: [00:23:46] Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel: [00:23:46] Yeah it does. It's terrible.

Karl Koch: [00:23:49] I'm very thankful I was on that tour at all because I never got to see Soundgarden back in the early days. So, it was just amazing to see him onstage.

Karl Koch: [00:23:56] Speaking of.

Rachel: [00:23:57] Yeah, I'm sure it was cool.

Karl Koch: [00:23:58] The strangest Cornell coincidence. Another Special Goodness tour. I think this was in 2000. We played some weird little club in Phoenix, I think. And we get in there and we hear this guy on stage already, like sound checking or something. And it's like he's playing acoustic. He's alone. We kept looking over our shoulders like, "It sounds like Chris Cornell. This is weird." And I remember we kind of checked it out. I was like, "That's not Chris Cornell. No that's not Chris Cornell. But he kind of sounds like him. Even kind of looks like him." It turned out to be his brother. You know he's got a brother that's also a musician. I can't remember his name. It's something Cornell. And he was opening the show that night. It's like.

Rachel: [00:24:36] Oh my gosh. [laughs]

Karl Koch: [00:24:37] It's like apparently, he, you know, didn't have the success of his brother and he kind of was, you know... More dicey lifestyle I'm not really sure. So, he really, you know he never really gave himself much of a chance financially to get anywhere. But I remember listening, I was like, "This guy is good." You know he can play good and can sing good. And these are decent songs. It's like, this is weird. It's like he should have been, he should have been somebody, you know. Like he's [Rachel: Yeah.] obviously got a very famous brother he could've used, just. You know. But he maybe, he just.

Rachel: [00:25:05] Some kind of something.

Karl Koch: [00:25:06] Yeah. So, it is just a strange coincidence like here's another Special Goodness thing where we end up with a Cornell. [both laugh] And we never, I never knew existed until that night. I was like, this is a thing? He's a, this a guy that exists?

Rachel: [00:25:20] Me either.

Karl Koch: [00:25:21] Yeah. So it was.

Rachel: [00:25:22] It's not like you're, you know, looking.

Karl Koch: [00:25:24] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:25:24] Googling Chris Cornell's family tree or something, and like...

Karl Koch: [00:25:28] Well he's out there. I don't, I don't remember. I don't remember his name but you, you could find, you could find it.

Rachel: [00:25:32] I'll have to look it up.

Karl Koch: [00:25:33] There's got to be mentions of him somewhere.

Karl Koch: [00:25:34] But anyway.

Rachel: [00:25:35] I hope it's like Craig or you know, it's another C.

Karl Koch: [00:25:39] [laughs] I hope it's Craig.

Rachel: [00:25:40] You know how people do that. Craig Cornell?

Karl Koch: [00:25:42] I really hope, I just really hope it's Craig.

Rachel: [00:25:44] Maybe it's Corey. Corey Cornell.

Karl Koch: [00:25:48] Maybe it's you know Fletch. [both laugh]

Rachel: [00:25:54] That's a cool one. I want to be a Fletch, or a Jack, a Jack Knife, even.

Karl Koch: [00:25:57] Right, right. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:26:01] So how did you choose what to display on the last Karl's Corner which was awesome, by the way. I took pictures of literally everything.

Karl Koch: [00:26:09] Thank you. Thank you.

Rachel: [00:26:11] How did you choose that stuff? And then you know, I know you're kind of mixing it up on the next version of it, I guess you would call it? For the next tour?

Karl Koch: [00:26:19] Yeah... Well, I just I have you know a massive amount of stuff. And it was not easy to go through because of the fact that it was packed very tightly in a small space. So, I kind of used it as an excuse to like tear through stuff and see what I had and see what I could find. And a lot of it was kind of random was like, "Oh I forgot about this. This is a good thing." You know? And I had discussions with the people, that company 23 7 that actually helps us do that VIP room. And that's. And they showed me pictures of "Well this is what Fall Out Boy did. And this is what this guy is gonna do and blah blah blah." And I was like, "Alright. You know, I get it." Like you need, you need some big pieces to show, you know, stuff. And you can have things made if you want and can have you know small displays of stuff. You can have guitars. And I was like, "OK. I don't have a lot of guitars, but I have some key things I'll put, I'll grab those." and as I started grabbing stuff like that was like, "Oh well here's Rivers' guitar strap. We have to have that obviously." You know.

Karl Koch: [00:27:14] And I reached out to Rivers' assistant and said, "Look, you know, I don't, I know Rivers has... I know they all have some stuff but stuff that says Rivers on it. If I'm going to have one, I should have his. So, what can you send over? And she was like, "Well, you can have the moon man. You can have his platinum plaques for the first two albums. You can have clothes that he wore and famous things." I was like, "Send all that. Perfect." Then I just started going through. I mean, I have filing cabinets. Tons and tons and tons and tons of stuff. You know it's like, alright here's like 42 billion flyers. Maybe I can pick out like, [Rachel laughs] maybe I can pick up like four or five of these. That kind of thing. And you know here's eight hundred million What do you call, uh...

Rachel: [00:27:53] I want to scan all your flyers. I want to like archive and document all of your outfits. [Karl laughs]

Karl Koch: [00:27:58] Well, I do too. I just haven't had time to do it. I mean you probably know about the omnibus book, the wheezing omnibus book.

Rachel: [00:28:05] I have it. Uh huh.

Karl Koch: [00:28:06] Yeah. Do you have the big one?

Rachel: [00:28:07] I have the big color one, yes.

Karl Koch: [00:28:09] That was the start of all that. Like that was like we, we got a foothold on it, like it needs... We need another book like that except more focused just on the stuff.

Rachel: [00:28:17] Yeah. Oh, that's a good idea.

Karl Koch: [00:28:19] Well I've been-

Rachel: [00:28:20] Is that in the works, in the plan up here?

Karl Koch: [00:28:21] It's not in the works, but it's in my planning. it's in my head. It's in my head. Because I want to, I want to write a book that kind of talks about the band, but I don't want to write like a, the normal kind of book that's like, "Ooh, let me tell you the juicy secrets." It's like no, I... These are my friends I'm not going to you know. And plus, there's hardly anything juicy anyway. But I can tell stories and I can tell stories using visuals you know. So that's kind of the idea with that. But anyway. So, I just went through stuff and when I saw... I'm sure I missed a lot of things, because there's a lot of like, "OK I'm not even going to look in this filing cabinet, that’s like the last three years and I don't even want to look at that right now." Like things.

Rachel: [00:28:54] Like it's too new. No one, you know.

Karl Koch: [00:28:55] Right. But then on the other hand I probably missed something cool. You know you never know. And there were whole amounts of stuff where I was just like, "Ehh, oh that's good. Ehh..." Like I just didn't have time to like, really go through everything. So, I figured this time around you know there's a handful of things I would pick last time that I didn't use. And there's other stuff that I was just like, "Should I do this or this? Ehhh... I'll do this!" And so next time, "Okay. I'll do that instead." You know. But some of the, some of the stuff has to be the same because there's just things that are so iconic that I couldn't not bring them again. Like that'd just be crazy.

Rachel: [00:29:29] Mhmm.

Karl Koch: [00:29:29] But yeah. It was just a, just a kind of organic process of just picking stuff out and parsing it down and you know.

Rachel: [00:29:34] I'm sure you like going through it. I mean I. I love looking at my old stuff and kind of remembering that time.

Karl Koch: [00:29:41] Mhmm.

Rachel: [00:29:42] So I'm sure it like, kind of, like going through it like brings you back to that time.

Karl Koch: [00:29:46] Oh definitely, definitely. And there's a lot of stuff that was like "This is really interesting it has a complicated story behind it. But how would you display this." You know like I've had to think about in terms of a traveling museum. So, there were things I was just like I don't even know what to do with this right now so I'm just going to set it down and think about something else. Just like strange, like I have like the band calendar from 1992 and 3. but it's like a desk calendar. So, it's this freaking big. [Rachel laughs] But it has like, all the shows like Matt wrote in the shows and like meetings with lawyers and this and that. It's all amazing.

Karl Koch: [00:30:17] Oh, that's cool.

Karl Koch: [00:30:18] But to display this thing it's like "OK we need something. A huge frame or something. You know what I mean? It's like you can't just have a piece of paper floating in the wind that's like you know 30 years old.

Rachel: [00:30:26] Letting people touch it and hold it up and review it. Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:30:29] Right. So, that I couldn't figure out how to bring. I was like "I'm just going to think. Maybe I have to get that one framed or something and deal with it another time." Because there's like 15 pages, it's a whole calendar. It's like two years of stuff, you know.

Rachel: [00:30:42] That's cool.

Karl Koch: [00:30:42] It's like, how would you? You know you basically have to photograph all those pages and put them in a book. It's the only way to do it.

Rachel: [00:30:48] Yeah like scan, I would, scan them on, one per page or something. That's funny. I mean, I, I have that too. From when I was a kid. I'm like "Why am I, like I don't need this anymore. Why do I have this calendar, with writing on it?"

Karl Koch: [00:31:00] I have a lot of that stuff too. I can't even read my own writing. Which is a problem. So, then it's like, "What does it mean? Who knows?"

[00:31:08] But I liked this calendar at the time.

[00:31:10] Right. It meant something.

Rachel: [00:31:12] So what, what's going to be different on the, on the next version or is it just gonna be like a blue soccer ball instead of a red one? Or...

Karl Koch: [00:31:21] I'll. I don't know the answer well enough to give you a good answer. But because it's gonna be indoors every day, that gives me some hope because a lot of things were kind of scaled back because of wind, rain, or problems like that, like outdoor things. And so, I'm thinking, well I could do a little bit more stuff that would be perhaps delicate. And we wouldn't have to worry about the weather as much. But I'm still in the process of like just barely starting to think about it, like just starting to like, go through my thought process of like, what, what do I want, what don't I want? So, I can't really give you a good answer on that right now. It will be somewhat different.

Rachel: [00:32:03] I, I was like oh the hacky sack from "Say It Ain't So", and the talisman from "Mykel & Carli". And there's just a lot of things that, you know I didn't know that there was like, little pill bottles for the "We Are All On Drugs" and there was some cool stuff that I noticed that I never knew existed.

Karl Koch: [00:32:25] Mmhmm.

Rachel: [00:32:25] And then other stuff that I knew existed that I was like, that is really cool to see in real life.

Karl Koch: [00:32:31] Well I want to... Like, there's certain things that are just so important that I don't see I couldn't bring some of that stuff back again. So, it just depends on a lot of things.

Rachel: [00:32:41] Like what happens.

Karl Koch: [00:32:42] Exactly.

Rachel: [00:32:43] Do you have a favorite? Like do you have ultimate favorite item that you, like, treasure?

Karl Koch: [00:32:51] Well you know I guess I treasure it all but... My, my, my favorite stuff is the earliest stuff like the very earliest flyers. The earliest tapes. You know there were cassette tapes and stuff, because that's what it all started as. There was, originally there was only a handful of tapes and our flyers. And that was almost it. Like, so that's like that's where it all kind of started as far as stuff goes. It's like the most precious stuff I guess because it's like irreplaceable and, you know the only stuff of that time period.

Rachel: [00:33:19] Mm hmm. Yeah, I still have my original stickers like the oval and the square, from when I first joined the fan club. And I thought it was weird that I saved them because I didn't remember even saving them.

Karl Koch: [00:33:31] That's cool. That's cool.

Rachel: [00:33:32] But like that's probably my, my most treasured thing. Cause it's like, oh you know, I don't know.

Karl Koch: [00:33:38] Well stuff like that it's like-.

Rachel: [00:33:39] I don't know.

Karl Koch: [00:33:40] We stopped making it. You know you can't get another one unless you find one on eBay or whatever it's like it's... That's just, it's, you know, the stuff that gets made and it's never made again. So, it's, it's cool like that.

Rachel: [00:33:50] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:33:52] It evokes that whole era very much.

Rachel: [00:33:54] And I still, and I like the omnibus too because, I don't know. We just moved and there's... Everything's everywhere. Not "just moved" but it's a thing. And I can look at the Weezines and I remember getting the Weezine where Brian went to prom with somebody. And I was like "I want to go to prom with Brian." [both laugh] Like, I just remember, like I totally, like seeing it and I remember it, like the color of it. Because it was all like on colored paper and black and white photocopy, uh, back in the day. And just takes me right back to my room and looking at the Weezine.

Karl Koch: [00:34:32] Well that's funny because that, what that does for me in particular, is she was one of like, what I call the original first wave of hardcore Weezer fans. Like there was like about 12 or 15 people in the L.A. area that came to every show, and we ended up knowing their names and they were like some of the first people to join the fan club.

Karl Koch: [00:34:53] And she was one of them. And it's funny, it's like, it's weird how like a face like that it's like you know. I don't know anything about that person. I just know she's one of those people and it's like, now they, I wonder if any of them even care about Weezer. You know, it's like, it's like literally 25 years later. Like are they, do they even remember? Do they care? Is it, how important is it to those people? You know? It's strange and yet I-.

Rachel: [00:35:15] So you don't still, or Brian doesn't keep in touch with her anymore?

Karl Koch: [00:35:18] I don't think so. [both laugh] I don't think so. I mean I think because of that from there was more contact with her than, than most. But--most of those fans. But like yeah it was like. I think there was a few that you know you'd see in later years, well once in a while, like "Oh it's her at the show." or him at the show or whatever. But at this point it's like geez I wonder if any of them actually are into it you know? Because they're all certainly all grown up now you know? [laughs].

Rachel: [00:35:45] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:35:45] But like there's other fans that, that we know they've been into it for all this time and they're still into it. So, it's like, yeah, I wonder.

Rachel: [00:35:51] I have a friend from the fan club that I recently like reconnected with and I know like she still likes Weezer. But not gonna get into the fan club probably and just is kind of like in a different place now.

Karl Koch: [00:36:07] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:36:08] Than you know wanting to be like super into Weezer anymore. But still a fan. I think once you're a fan of somebody you'll always be a fan. You might not be like.

Karl Koch: [00:36:17] That's true.

Rachel: [00:36:17] Hardcore, but.

Karl Koch: [00:36:18] Yeah, that's true.

Rachel: [00:36:19] There's like especially if you were part of... if you were like one of the original fan club members, like Weezer's got a special place in your heart for sure. Like whether or not you see them. Like maybe they moved somewhere where they don't tour anymore or something but yeah... I have always been super care about the West Side Weirdos pennants.

Karl Koch: [00:36:39] You know, I don't know where that came from. I think somehow...

Rachel: [00:36:44] I know there's an artist that did them.

Karl Koch: [00:36:46] Yeah. And I don't know what connection that artist has. I think he's somebody that that management knew. And so, like they proposed that. It's like a, you know, hey what do you think of this? And, you know, I don't know who's had the final approval over stuff or if you know Rivers was particularly into it or not. But I don't know the meaning, like I don't know what they were trying to say except obviously the, you know the origins of Weezer on the west, are west L.A. you know?

Rachel: [00:37:15] Mhmm.

Karl Koch: [00:37:16] So there's that. So, it does connect in that way, but I don't know. I don't know. I've never heard officially like, hey this is what that means.

Rachel: [00:37:24] It's interesting because I, I always thought it would be like a song title or a lyric.

Karl Koch: [00:37:30] Right. Well.

Rachel: [00:37:30] Or something, anything, but.

Karl Koch: [00:37:32] It might have an either or both, but I don't know if that. Yeah, I don't know.

Rachel: [00:37:38] But apparently it didn't happen if it was.

Karl Koch: [00:37:39] If it, yeah if it did it happen, if it didn't. If it was something, it never happened, that's true.

Rachel: [00:37:43] And I'm kind of going back to memory lane here. But I saw pictures of you with Allen family at like a, I think it was a photo opportunity at the last tour. I think it was last tour. Or was it a different tour? Are you guys still really close with them?

Karl Koch: [00:37:59] We're not close, beyond, like if we go through Salt Lake City, I'll invite them to a show. Only because you know they've all moved on with their lives. And they, you know they have all those... like Mykel and Carli's brothers both have families and I think like old, like old kids now like you know adult kids. So, they've all. And Mr. Allen died some years ago. Mrs. Allen is still with us and she's, she's great. She's just as sweet as she's always been. I'm in e-mail contact with the brothers from time to time, you know. But outside of like meeting up at a show there's not a whole lot of contact. I'm glad there is. It's nice. I sent them the omnibus they loved it. You know, they thought that was great.

Rachel: [00:38:42] I'm sure it probably makes them smile and, to see all their work.

Karl Koch: [00:38:46] Yeah. No, it, it made their mom, their mom thrilled. She actually thought it was really cool.

Rachel: [00:38:50] Proud.

Karl Koch: [00:38:51] So yeah. It's just you know everybody's just got their own life and you can't have a, you know.

Rachel: [00:38:56] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:38:56] It's impossible to have like, endlessly expanding social circles you can't keep up with it.

Rachel: [00:38:59] I know.

Karl Koch: [00:39:00] But it's, it's one of those people that we'll reach out when we're in, we're near them. So that's nice.

Rachel: [00:39:06] Do you have a special memory with Mykel and Carli that you kind of like fondly remember?

Karl Koch: [00:39:13] Well I just remember having fun times at the house they had in Portland. We'd come through town or if I was staying, I had a friend that lived in Portland too. So sometimes I'd you know, be staying there and then he'd come over to their place. And it was always fun just to hang out there. Like there it was basically if you went over there it was like kind of an automatic like party situation. Like OK we're just gonna, you know we're gonna have food and we're gonna hang out and we're going to have fun. And it's funny cause I can specifically remember, you know, when I hung out with them at certain shows you know? Like where they were and what happened and stuff an... Just things like I remember having pizza with Carli one time at some pizza place in Portland, and that was funny. But mostly it's, I think the best memories would be at their house because it was just fun. It was a fun time.

Rachel: [00:39:57] Just hanging out, and friends.

Karl Koch: [00:39:58] Yeah it was exciting because it was just like there's just so much going on at that point it's like Oh my God. Like you know how are you guys keeping up with all this stuff?

Rachel: [00:40:05] Trash bags of letters, apparently. [both laugh].

Karl Koch: [00:40:07] Yeah. Both in, incoming and outgoing as far as lyrics and stuff goes. I mean they worked hard. They did a lot of work. And they're funny people. Man, they were funny. Really funny girls. They're hilarious.

Rachel: [00:40:19] Yeah, they seem to definitely have personality, like good, like fun personalities.

Karl Koch: [00:40:23] Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean it was. Yeah. [laughs]

Rachel: [00:40:27] Alright. So, is there anything special or specific that you miss about like the good old days, like the beginning of Weezer? Santa Monica? The garage?

Karl Koch: [00:40:38] Well I have very visceral memories of all that, that are fun to reminisce on. And, like people say like, oh I wouldn't, I wouldn't go back. I wouldn't go back now only because so many things in my life have been established since then that I wouldn't want to change you know or...

Rachel: [00:40:56] Go back there.

Karl Koch: [00:40:57] Right.

Rachel: [00:40:57] Yeah, I totally understand.

Karl Koch: [00:40:58] In terms of you know my memories and stuff. I've got you know. I mean it was a very, very special time when, when that was all getting started. It was a lot, there was a lot of magic you know, just like, Rivers literally working on demos in our garage, in the garage there. And then you just walk in there and listen to what he just did and then, like oh yeah. You know, the band would just walk in and start jamming on it, and like you know, in like a week you'd be like this song sounds kind of cool. And then you find, you realized later, okay, it's called Say It Ain't So. Like I mean just witnessing these things happen. It's like you know I'll never forget any of that. It's amazing. And you know, I-.

Rachel: [00:41:30] It's like part of history now.

Karl Koch: [00:41:32] It is now which is weird. Like at the time it didn't feel that way. Yeah and then you know just the whole vibe of L.A. I mean it hasn't changed drastically.

Rachel: [00:41:41] Oh it's, it's definitely changed.

Karl Koch: [00:41:43] It's definitely changed. I mean there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that are gone now. And a lot of things that have been built and changed physically. But I mean I'm talking in terms of like, I just remember walking in West L.A. at night. We'd be walking back from someplace or whatever. And just the smell of those weird trees with the weird spiky pink blossoms all over them at night. Like they really stink you know? [laughs] And kind of like cool ocean air, you know what I mean? Where it's kind of like damp. And just things being kind of weird and quiet at night out there. It's like there's a lot of, a lot of just sort of sense memories. You know, like I can think back to like what it felt like, walking, like just what it felt like to walk around and be around then. And like the smells and what certain corners were like, and certain buildings and stores and... And I know a lot of that's totally changed. But yeah, I mean it's like I feel, I feel-.

Rachel: [00:42:35] And a scene too there was like this whole scene.

Karl Koch: [00:42:37] Well right. And like we didn't even realize what it was. You know all we knew is that the hair metal was dying. And thank God, you know. It was like.

Rachel: [00:42:44] Yeah.

Karl Koch: [00:42:44] But, and replacing it was like this like hodgepodge and.

Rachel: [00:42:49] Total hodgepodge like there, you can't say that there was any one thing.

Karl Koch: [00:42:55] Yeah.

Rachel: [00:42:55] You know?

Karl Koch: [00:42:56] Yeah I mean there was this, there was this sort of like, these kind of transitional bands that were kind of... kind of funky but kind of metal but kind of this kind of that and like you know, these... and it's like what is this music and is, and you know some even got signed and you're like, really the Limbo Maniacs? like who the hell is gonna, who are these guys you know? But making, making music that sounded like, like... In L.A. there was hardly anybody that was making music that sounded like Pavement or Pixies and stuff, you know. Like, those bands existed. You know? They'd grown out of like college rock and they were like a thing. But like in L.A. it's like, you'd be hard pressed to find bands like that. So, it really felt like we were taking a stand. Like OK we're gonna do this. And who else is doing this? Nobody. Like really. Like every bill we were on. It was like, OK these guys are kind of like the you know the, kinda, kind of like The Cult and these guys are kind of like Jane's Addiction and these guys are kind of like you know, we don't know what these guys are trying to be like. Like the Misfits crossed with you know, God knows what, with a girl singer. It's like, what the hell is this?

Karl Koch: [00:44:01] And here comes Weezer and they're wearing t-shirts and they're like, they have no style whatsoever. They're just plain dudes and wait. These are just like you know these kinds of plaintive-

Rachel: [00:44:11] Regular.

Karl Koch: [00:44:11] These plaintive, like you know alternative rock songs. Like which nobody even called it alternative rock yet. So, what I remember most about the scene was like going to all these clubs trying to get like people coming to shows. And it was tough because L.A. is full of people that were like OK, they're either scouting looking for bands to sign or they're there to watch their friend's band or they don't care about your band. And there's almost nobody that's just like I'm here to see music, show me music. Like there was almost none of that. In every other city. People would go to a club like I'll check out these bands. Who knows what I might see? Like this sounds cool.

Rachel: [00:44:47] Mhmm.

Karl Koch: [00:44:49] That doesn't, that didn't happen.

Rachel: [00:44:49] I feel like you went for a specific... like at that at the clubs in those days. The, the bands that played at those clubs were rock bands. Like you didn't have like hip hop groups.

Karl Koch: [00:45:02] Oh no.

Rachel: [00:45:02] Or rapping at those at those clubs.

Karl Koch: [00:45:06] No, no.

Rachel: [00:45:06] There was like comedy clubs or there was like a Brit pop band or like punk or like rock but there wasn't really any like dudes in a band hanging out playing you know something that means something. It's like you had to be a thing.

Karl Koch: [00:45:23] Part of it's the whole, the whole, the whole function of the of the scene was back then was, was it was an industry vehicle. It's like almost nobody started a band back then thinking I just want to play music. Like most people started bands thinking like, maybe I can get signed. Like that was the whole thing. That was what they were doing. And you see some of these bands up there, like what do you think you're gonna get signed doing what you're doing? What the hell is this? You know? So that, but then there would be bands that would be like, they're so original and so unique. Like they're never gonna get big but this is... This could have only happened here, where there's like all these freaks and they're just like, you know interacting and creating something that's never been seen before or since.

Karl Koch: [00:46:02] Like I, we saw. I remember seeing some really weird bands that are just. Who knows what happened to them, but they were really interesting. And it's like were they rebelling against L.A.? Were they telling L.A. you know, go, go, go F yourself? Or were they like really thinking they were going to get somewhere like I don't know.

Karl Koch: [00:46:19] I think one of the funniest ones were our friends in the band called The Dumb Dumbs and their whole.

Rachel: [00:46:25] Never heard of them.

Karl Koch: [00:46:26] Well their whole thing. Like, actually Pat Wilson was in that band for a little while. Because their original drummer bailed and Pat, and they kind of asked Pat. And Weezer had already started at this point but Pat, Pat was kind of moonlighting a little bit.

Karl Koch: [00:46:39] And this is, these were guys, that their whole thing was they had... They looked like the most, like the glam metal guys in like late 80s. These guys were there to make fun of them basically. But what they did is they looked so extreme like they've said OK. Those guys are gonna have gigantic hair. We're gonna have like GIGANTIC hair. And like, they'd use like, like a, you know like a gallon of Hairspray. And the hair would just be like [makes whoosh sound] this you know? And then they'd wear like.

Rachel: [00:47:09] That sounds amazing.

Karl Koch: [00:47:09] And they'd wear like, plaid suits and like crazy big colorful sneakers and it was almost like this kind of like almost clown metal, in a sense. And they'd have, they did makeup and they had like you know they had, they did foundation and like the eyeliner and stuff and like, it was like this whole, like you know. Sexy glam thing, but like way over the top where it was like, "This is ridiculous." And the music sounded like basically metal Ramones.

Karl Koch: [00:47:33] And the songs were all like super snotty and like you know like sarcastic and they'd get up there and they had a following. Like a couple hundred people would come watch their show. Because nothing else was like them and they were funny. Like this is something.

Rachel: [00:47:48] Well it sounds like it was a show, and people like that, like people like...

Karl Koch: [00:47:51] People could... like this could only have happened at that time period is what I'm saying. Like it would not happen today, and it couldn't have happened ten years earlier. Like it had to happen at that weird in-

Rachel: [00:47:58] People would be like, "Uh, this is like really stupid. I gotta go."

Karl Koch: [00:48:01] Right it was like this it was like this thing where it's like. You have these guys that were like smarter than the, than the dudes in like these, like you know... Basically, like everybody wanted to be like Motley Crue and nobody had the songs. So, you had all these bands that were just like, you know... He's the, he's got no shirt on, and his hair is like this, and he's [makes groan noise]. Like, dude [Rachel laughs] get over yourself. So, you know. The Dumb Dumbs are like you know, "F you. You guys are all idiots." You know? This is, this is what we should be doing. And it was funny as hell it was funny as hell, they used to have Pat-before Pat joined him and our other friend, also named Pat, and even Matt before Matt-

Karl Koch: [00:48:37] This is way before Weezer. We used to have this sing like, we need we need guys in fat suits to come out. [Rachel laughs] and they'd stuff their clothes with pillows. And they'd come out like, wow these dudes were playing you know their, these like you know almost Ramones-y kind of songs. With these like metal guitars. And they'd just like dance around all huge and bounce off of each other. It was like this part of the show, like what a weird thing.

Rachel: [00:49:02] So weird.

Karl Koch: [00:49:03] And that's... I don't know. Those are.

Rachel: [00:49:06] Is there video of this? Or pictures? Cause I need to see-

Karl Koch: [00:49:09] There are some pictures. There's some pictures and there's. The funny thing is they somehow got, ran into... Like they somehow got friends with Pauly Shore. And they had this one thing where they got on MTV in this one show. It was like Pauly Shore's something or something or other. And like the house band was The Dumb Dumbs and that was like, they thought they were. This is their ticket to somewhere. And it never went anywhere, and they were always mad about that but that-.

Rachel: [00:49:35] Was it a movie?

Karl Koch: [00:49:36] It was part of something I can't remember what. I'd have to think back.

Rachel: [00:49:40] Why does it sound familiar?

Karl Koch: [00:49:41] It's a thing that happened. But anyway, like that was like their like, their last gasp. Like, oh we can do this thing for MTV! and it's going to be you know Pauly Shore! And then nothing happened... you know? [laughs].

Rachel: [00:49:51] Pauly Shore too.

Karl Koch: [00:49:52] Because, it wasn't designed for that world. It wasn't designed for that world. But anyway that, that's a memory I have. It's just like, Jesus, you know. It was a weird confluence of like, culture and timing, and music. It was like this really strange like, like everything kind of [makes explosion sound] kind of blew up into this new thing after that. Like right around like you know '92 it just all started changing again.

Rachel: [00:50:12] I, yeah, I. And it's kind of like the end of freedom for kids. Or not freedom but just like kind of lackadaisical parenting.

Karl Koch: [00:50:21] Oh yeah.

Rachel: [00:50:22] Or kind of like adventure. And-

Karl Koch: [00:50:24] Yeah that's true. That's true. A lot of, a lot of things shifted that's, that's true.

Rachel: [00:50:29] Just, and the music. I think it's definitely a pivotal part of music history and culture.

Karl Koch: [00:50:37] Mm hmm. I don't think that the right book has been written yet about it. Because a lot of books have been written about certain aspects, certain bands, certain things. But like there's something about like this... it's very hard to put a finger on. And we were there, and I can't barely explain it. You know? It's like we knew, and you could see it, but you didn't know what it was. You know? It was like "Why is this band at this club and what's going on here?" and it's like... it was a very strange time.

Rachel: [00:51:03] Also all over the place.

Karl Koch: [00:51:05] Mhmm.

Rachel: [00:51:06] Like just kind of like, I don't know. People are probably like throwing things at the wall thing what would make them famous maybe.

Karl Koch: [00:51:12] Mhmm. There's some of that. Yeah, yeah, it's a... Anyway, anyway, I digress. But uh...

Intermission: [00:51:41] [Musical Intermission]

Rachel: [00:51:47] Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, Karl, for interviewing with us. We appreciate it so much. If you want to check out more from Karl, he's on Instagram and Twitter as Karlophone, which is a parlophone with a Karl. K A R L O P H O N E. If you want more Weezer information, go to Weezer's web site which is hopefully you know this already. www.weezer.com. Please rate, review, and subscribe to We Are Weezer on your podcast apps if you like the show. We always appreciate a review and leave us a review and we'll give you a shout out. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at We Are Weezer. You can e-mail us at weareweezerforever@gmail.com. And again, thank you so much for listening. It means a lot. And that's it. Adios!

Intermission: [00:53:40] We are Weezer. We are Weezer. We are Weezer and I love you.